09:04:50 <dan-shearer[m]> #startmeeting 
09:04:50 <lumosql-meetbot> dan-shearer[m]: Meeting started at 2022-11-11T09:04+0000
09:04:51 <lumosql-meetbot> dan-shearer[m]: Current chairs: dan-shearer[m]
09:04:52 <lumosql-meetbot> dan-shearer[m]: Useful commands: #action #info #idea #link #topic #motion #vote #close #endmeeting
09:04:53 <lumosql-meetbot> dan-shearer[m]: See also: https://hcoop-meetbot.readthedocs.io/en/stable/
09:04:54 <lumosql-meetbot> dan-shearer[m]: Participants should now identify themselves with '#here' or with an alias like '#here FirstLast'
09:04:56 <bjk621[m]> yes but ...
09:04:56 <bjk621[m]> Let's give it 5min before we close the meeting
09:05:00 <dan-shearer[m]> #here Dan
09:05:02 <rubdos[m]> Sleep is for the weak!
09:05:06 <rubdos[m]> #here Ruben
09:05:12 <bjk621[m]> #here Björn
09:05:20 <Labhraich> #here Claudio
09:05:29 <dan-shearer[m]> and good morning my fine colleagues
09:05:40 <dan-shearer[m]> and friends
09:05:41 <Labhraich> Not sure I'm here and I'm still trying to caffeinate...
09:05:50 <dan-shearer[m]> and vegetables then
09:05:52 <rubdos[m]> Here and ironing my jeans... but I'm reading and responding!
09:06:13 <bjk621[m]> wow, ironing jeans ...'
09:06:24 <dan-shearer[m]> Ruben De Smet flat legs will guarantee you success. Good strategy
09:06:41 <rubdos[m]> I usually iron them without my legs in them
09:06:55 <Labhraich> It does work better that way.  And causes less pain
09:07:36 <dan-shearer[m]> Ah I see. Apologies. Well, Ruben enjoy your wrinkle-free day. May that reflect the calm state of your brain. Wrinkle-free is good.
09:07:50 <rubdos[m]> I couldn't agree more
09:07:59 <rubdos[m]> proceeds to iron brain.
09:08:29 <dan-shearer[m]> #topic Administration and Other General Things
09:09:04 <dan-shearer[m]> #info Dan continues to do meta-things for LumoSQL funding and organisation, hopefully getting back to committing to trees very soon now
09:09:04 <bjk621[m]> Björn has not done what he committed to do, sorry
09:09:36 <moonshine[m]> #here gabby
09:10:00 <dan-shearer[m]> bjk621 I am not looking for guilt, just documentation... whatever that was, please could you mention it here as in #action Björn to XYZ. Because I can't remember just at the moment what that is :-)
09:10:12 <dan-shearer[m]> morning Gabby!
09:10:34 <dan-shearer[m]> #info Ruben continues to commit code, and we'll here about that soon.
09:11:37 <dan-shearer[m]> #info Oscar has made two significant steps in Sweet Lies (preliminary server for discussion) and also Molly (a release). Both likely LumoSQL users
09:11:54 <dan-shearer[m]> *hear about that soon
09:13:03 <dan-shearer[m]> Any other general statements to make?
09:13:35 <dan-shearer[m]> (I am not suggesting Oscar is going to attend this meeting, I'm just saying at some point I'm sure he will tell us exactly where he is up to.)
09:15:09 <rubdos[m]> #info Martina will, with high probability, be able to work on ABE related technologies from in Italy for the next year. This is on top of the money that our group has requested for four years.
09:15:33 <rubdos[m]> I'll communicate details with Dan in private.
09:16:01 <dan-shearer[m]> Woop woop Martina Palmucci
09:16:13 <dan-shearer[m]> And with a bit of luck a few tickets to travel to Brussels sometimes eh?
09:16:40 <dan-shearer[m]> well done everyone at VUB concerned
09:16:51 <rubdos[m]> That's the hope. She did this all by herself, there's been close to zero input from our group.
09:17:10 <rubdos[m]> Details in dm some time after meeting :-)
09:19:19 <dan-shearer[m]> Ok well as we all know here Martina has published her thesis on SSS (which is now in the LumoSQL tree). This work needs further development but there is a chance that the LumoSQL SSS could be usable by other related projects.
09:20:44 <dan-shearer[m]> Ok Ruben
09:21:16 <dan-shearer[m]> Want to do a quick summary if I start SQL-ABE?
09:21:28 <dan-shearer[m]> #topic SQL-ABE
09:21:29 <rubdos[m]> sure
09:22:07 <rubdos[m]> #info SQL-PE is predicate encryption for SQL. The goal is to use attribute-based encryption in embedded databases for fine grained access control.
09:22:27 <rubdos[m]> I've been spending a lot of time on Whisperfish last two weeks, so there's little progress to report. Here's the summary:
09:23:08 <rubdos[m]> #info SQL-PE got password authentication (and generic authentication, for for instance smart cards) three weeks ago. The code has been cleaned up a bit, and authentication has been tested across FFI (meaning, C API and from Python)
09:23:38 <rubdos[m]> #info I mean to implement the first steps of whole-table encryption next week.
09:24:18 <rubdos[m]> After whole-table encryption, there will be state machine serialization, such that privileges and key material can be durable.
09:24:54 <rubdos[m]> #info This implies there is two big steps left for our POC
09:25:19 <rubdos[m]> #info First is whole-table encryption (which almost trivially extends to row-by-row encryption), second is durable storage of key material and the privilege state machine
09:25:26 <rubdos[m]> That's the end of my info, I think.
09:28:09 <dan-shearer[m]> Thanks Ruben
09:28:54 <dan-shearer[m]> Noting for any new readers here in #lumosql that Whisperfish is a likely early user of LumoSQL
09:29:35 <rubdos[m]> Main requirement from Whisperfish' perspective is backwards compatibility/migration path from SQLcipher
09:30:36 <dan-shearer[m]> Data migration path from SQLcipher should be very simple.
09:30:40 <rubdos[m]> I wouldn't bet on it.
09:30:44 <rubdos[m]> It should be
09:30:47 <rubdos[m]> but it won't be :)
09:31:26 <dan-shearer[m]> I have an idea on that. But let's not go too far in the future.
09:31:35 <rubdos[m]> Yes. I think we can move on!
09:33:11 <dan-shearer[m]> Claudio you've been continuing your infrastructure work recently in operating systems and platforms. Want to have a wee topic?
09:34:01 <dan-shearer[m]> modulo coffee consumption. I mean, it's an hour earlier here, I feel the jetlag
09:34:53 <Labhraich> Not really
09:35:02 <dan-shearer[m]> okidoke
09:35:26 <Labhraich> All I've done is use VMs I've created to test librecast changes (which as I mentioned had a strict deadline, now past, all changes committed, out of the way)
09:35:45 <Labhraich> And since I had them I testes LumoSQL on some architectures/OSs where we hadn't tested it before
09:35:49 <Labhraich> That's about all actually
09:36:11 <dan-shearer[m]> Ok.
09:36:38 <Labhraich> "tested" even.  Did I mention decaffeinated?
09:37:00 <Labhraich> Testes are best not shown in public
09:37:02 <dan-shearer[m]> I was just chatting to moonshine about some documentation, perhaps you could add a #info here listing said architectures/OSs just for the record. It will get documented eventually.
09:38:58 <rubdos[m]> Labhraich: I like the typo.
09:38:58 <dan-shearer[m]> Good morning valldrac
09:39:25 <valldrac[m]> Morning
09:39:27 <dan-shearer[m]> Would you be willing to give a couple of statements about where you are up to with your related projects?
09:39:47 <dan-shearer[m]> You can use the #item and #link commands to do so. Plus general chat like this of course.
09:40:14 <dan-shearer[m]> Reference:  https://hcoop-meetbot.readthedocs.io/en/stable/
09:40:36 <dan-shearer[m]> #topic Molly and Sweet Lies
09:41:04 <dan-shearer[m]> I believe there was a recent Molly update pushed (and Molly uses SQLCipher just like Whisperfish does)
09:41:17 <valldrac[m]> #item Basically I'm busy with Molly upcoming release and continue working on the integration of Monero wallet into Molly
09:41:18 <lumosql-meetbot> valldrac[m]: Unknown command: #item
09:41:40 <dan-shearer[m]> I'm sorry
09:41:44 <dan-shearer[m]> that was #info
09:42:04 <dan-shearer[m]> Too many tokens from too many languages
09:42:06 <valldrac[m]> #info Basically I'm busy with Molly upcoming release and continue working on the integration of Monero wallet into Molly
09:43:01 <valldrac[m]> For those unfamiliar with that, we made a crowdfunding campaign on the Monero community to replace MobileCoin (as in Signal) by Monero in Molly
09:43:41 <dan-shearer[m]> #info Integration of XYZ feature into a secure messaging client, because if Molly becomes a LumoSQL user then "XYZ" can also be "Exposing interesting feature of Lumions"
09:44:03 <valldrac[m]> #link Long thread about the project https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/252
09:44:40 <valldrac[m]> * Morning 😉😉
09:44:44 <valldrac[m]> This project was proposed before meeting you guys 😉
09:45:34 <valldrac[m]> #info No news regarding MollyLies server from my side. We need to decide about next steps
09:47:16 <valldrac[m]> BTW as part of the Monero project, I'm developing a SDK to use Monero wallets in Android devices
09:47:19 <dan-shearer[m]> Ok thanks Oscar
09:47:22 <valldrac[m]> #link https://github.com/mollyim/monero-wallet-sdk
09:48:02 <valldrac[m]> That's all, if you have any question I'm here around
09:48:27 <dan-shearer[m]> Presumably Molly will have a similar migration challenge to Whisperfish to move to LumoSQL
09:48:49 <rubdos[m]> dan-shearer[m]: Molly has the additional annoyance that is called "Java", I presume.
09:48:56 <rubdos[m]> And "Android"...
09:49:01 <rubdos[m]> but yes, in essence, I suppose it will!
09:50:35 <valldrac[m]> rubdos[m]: Yes. Al least, because of Monero, I'm becoming a master of interfacing C/C++ with Java/Kotlin 😞 I can help with that
09:50:35 <dan-shearer[m]> SQLCihper is an encrypted blob on disk which then becomes a completely standard SQLite database when opened with a plain key. Data is to be transferred in to a standard SQLite database on disk that has encrypted blobs within it. Or something like that, many details unclear yet.
09:51:16 <rubdos[m]> The principle is easy. A clean implementation on such scale is challenging.
09:51:40 <rubdos[m]> A clean implementation such that the API stays compatible with the Signal/Molly code... Let's pray.
09:55:55 <dan-shearer[m]> Ok that's helpful
09:56:39 <dan-shearer[m]> I know there is going to be a complete subproject of LumoSQL dedicated to "Migration and Compatibility". In fact that should probably be a stub documentation topic now!
09:57:04 <dan-shearer[m]> Well then I think we are at the end of the meeting.
09:57:54 <dan-shearer[m]> #topic Final business and any dates and deadlines
09:58:03 <dan-shearer[m]> A lot has happened - everyone in this meeting has received administrative updates from me as well in email - and LumoSQL is marching on.
09:58:24 <dan-shearer[m]> Is anyone looking at any conferences to attend, if they could
09:58:25 <dan-shearer[m]> ?
09:58:47 <dan-shearer[m]> I know I mentioned a LumoSQL sprint, and I will be examining the practicality of that early next week.
09:59:05 <rubdos[m]> RWC in Japan would be cool to attend 🥲
09:59:27 <dan-shearer[m]> Where the "R" stands for "LumoSQL"? Sounds great
09:59:31 <dan-shearer[m]> looks innocent
09:59:37 <valldrac[m]> After the CCC was canceled, I only have FOSDEM in my calendar
09:59:51 <rubdos[m]> FOSDEM is default for me. I live next to it :D
10:00:10 <dan-shearer[m]> Well yes.
10:01:15 <dan-shearer[m]> I have been thinking that we could maybe run a day of LumoSQL/etc related talks in a VUB venue, around a LumoSQL/etc sprint.
10:02:10 <dan-shearer[m]> That would be a pleasant very short walk for any interested FOSDEM attendees, and potentially bring some very interesting people into the peaceful and quiet VUB campus.
10:02:41 <rubdos[m]> I think that could be arranged
10:03:11 <Labhraich> Did we see something similar a few months ago?
10:03:27 <rubdos[m]> Depending on the scale, that would however require a budget.
10:03:53 <Labhraich> And I would guess an official large room / lecture theatre rather than your group's space
10:03:59 <dan-shearer[m]> By "interesting" I mean people who do lots of work in databases, security multiparty computation, human aspects of information exchange etc etc
10:04:03 <bjk621[m]> Will dan-shearer share some details on practical arrangements related to FOSDEM?
10:04:34 <dan-shearer[m]> Ruben De Smet yes a budget would indeed be required, and hopefully foudn
10:04:36 <dan-shearer[m]> *found
10:04:54 <dan-shearer[m]> bjk621[m]: Ah. Yes.
10:05:12 <rubdos[m]> dan-shearer[m]: I would pay from the CSI overhead budget, but alas, that's not been granted yet.
10:05:27 <dan-shearer[m]> I need to check where I am up to. I have multiple quotes for accommodation and I can't remember what the status is.
10:06:01 <dan-shearer[m]> Labhraich yes exactly. Lecture theatre.
10:06:43 <bjk621[m]> No room is bad. Two (per person) is too many
10:09:31 <dan-shearer[m]> Ruben De Smet I am thinking that it is time VUB were encouraged to acknowledge LumoSQL/etc as a cool VUB project, and I have found in other universities that the simple act of having someone outside a project fund a room is great internal advertising. But we can work on that. I do not know VUB internals :-)
10:09:56 <rubdos[m]> Nobody knows VUB internals.
10:10:20 <dan-shearer[m]> Great, then we use empirical methods.
10:10:40 <dan-shearer[m]> #action Dan to summarise FOSDEM explorations and share them.
10:10:42 <rubdos[m]> Agreed. We'll figure something out.
10:12:52 <dan-shearer[m]> Labhraich "Did we see something similar a few months ago?" Kindof. Only this time I'm thinking that we may well be able to get some talks from people who have not previously heard of LumoSQL and are at FOSDEM because of their work which relates strongly to LumoSQL
10:12:59 <dan-shearer[m]> As well as LumoSQL of course
10:13:09 <dan-shearer[m]> Oh hang on there was one more thing
10:13:32 <dan-shearer[m]> matthewcroughan - nix.how ... I noticed you said there was something which popped up in the Nix community about Fossil integration?
10:14:58 <dan-shearer[m]> hasn't seen matthewcroughan - nix.how yet... that's fine :-)
10:16:03 <dan-shearer[m]> foudn it
10:16:31 <dan-shearer[m]> #link https://github.com/NixOS/nix/pull/7272 Matthew pointed this out, which made him consider revisiting his Nix flake work for LumoSQL
10:16:41 <dan-shearer[m]> ok then I think we have finished this meeting... anything else?
10:16:54 <dan-shearer[m]> Thankyou everyone
10:17:07 <dan-shearer[m]> ending in ten seconds...
10:17:37 <dan-shearer[m]> #meetingname Another Hebdomadaire Catchup
10:17:37 <lumosql-meetbot> dan-shearer[m]: Meeting name set to: Another Hebdomadaire Catchup
10:17:48 <dan-shearer[m]> #endmeeting